So What
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Post by So What on Mar 2, 2008 17:13:01 GMT -5
Coming from the discussion in the Chit-Chat thread..
What makes someone a sell out?
I honestly don't think that just because someone changes genres that they are a "sell out". People change and music changes and so does their taste in music. I think artists need to tamper with more genres and try more sounds. It makes music interesting and makes their albums more diverse.
So, what do you think defines a "sell out"?
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Post by luisro on Mar 2, 2008 17:16:25 GMT -5
An artist who does something they say they wouldn't just for the purpose of selling records. Changing drasticly after an album bombs. Re-releasing albums with radio friendly songs.
Changing genres per album isn't selling out.
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Post by So What on Mar 2, 2008 17:31:35 GMT -5
Well I know a lot of people called Nelly Furtado a sell out, but she did several songs with Timbo prior to Loose. So it wasn't like a first time thing. Not too mention, a lot of her songs had hip-hop influence in them. She didn't really change HER, she just changed her sound.
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Post by luisro on Mar 2, 2008 17:32:15 GMT -5
Well those are people who don't know about her career. In order to call someone a sell out you should know their history.
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Post by So What on Mar 2, 2008 17:33:35 GMT -5
Exactly.
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Post by Carriefan0209 on Mar 2, 2008 18:07:46 GMT -5
I would think the definition of the word "sell out" would be perfectly defined if Kelly did country. Yes you can dabble in genres, but not freakin change genres with each album.
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Post by JuanCandy... Sweet!! :D on Mar 2, 2008 18:10:18 GMT -5
I LOVE when artists decide to take risks on their music. In fact, I HATE when artists just do the same and same AND same type of music...just because it is safer for them. They found the magic formula and never change that, they even re-create their same songs ...
I think that artists that decide not to be squared into one style works for them.
Madonna is a very good example of that, but she is not the only one of course. Even U2 in the Rock sphere have tried some different stuff in their career.
Sellout is a very unfairly used adjective that many people just throw easily on others. Of course, some of them back their opinions, which is fine, but others are just finding a way to dismiss an artist.
I agree with l.r.'s definition. It was obvious, unfortunately, with Shakira's Oral Fixation. She had decided to go for a more serious route, more pop-rockish... but Don't Bother bombed!! she rushed and made Hips Don't Lie, a song that seriously do not fit with all the other songs in the album. In addition, she added La Tortura, a song that had already been a crossover Spanish song for her.
Madonna sellout? HA! She never took herself seriously, and she tried so many things, from bubble pop to Great Dance tracks. Avril? Yes! She criticized A LOT people like Britney for being a princess, and focusing on her body... and now she's posing semi-nude on the cover of a magazine. She criticized bubble pop once and then went with a bubble pop image herself. I like Girlfriend, but she was the one who did the first step while criticizing others and then she went in that same route.
It's as if Eminem ended up having a duet with Britney Spears (if she ever has a comeback at radio) to ride on her tails.
Nelly Furtado?? Ha! Turn Off The Lights was urban enough, but even more the remixes, so no way! Maybe she got sexier in her looks, but she never said she was going to be a musical nun!
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Post by Late Winter on Mar 2, 2008 18:20:16 GMT -5
I think I pretty much agree with Luis's definition in doing something that is not exactly organic with other purposes in mind
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Post by Carriefan0209 on Mar 2, 2008 18:24:12 GMT -5
An artist who does something they say they wouldn't just for the purpose of selling records. Changing drasticly after an album bombs. Re-releasing albums with radio friendly songs. Changing genres per album isn't selling out. I agree with this EXCEPT the third sentence. I dont think re releasing albums is 'selling out'
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Post by luisro on Mar 2, 2008 18:53:06 GMT -5
An artist who does something they say they wouldn't just for the purpose of selling records. Changing drasticly after an album bombs. Re-releasing albums with radio friendly songs. Changing genres per album isn't selling out. I agree with this EXCEPT the third sentence. I dont think re releasing albums is 'selling out' Did you even read it entirely? Re-releasing an album is fine. I consider it selling out when they add radio-friendly songs. The perfect example would be Shakira. Her album was perfectly rock-ish-pop but after Don't Bother bombed and the album debuted with miserable numbers she added a radio-friendly song to sell. That is selling out. However, name Mariah Carey for example who had a huge album with huge singles but she re-released it with the same kind of material. That is totally fine with my definition.
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Post by Carriefan0209 on Mar 2, 2008 18:55:43 GMT -5
^ Oh ok yea because i was thinking of people like Mariah and Justin and peeps who added more songs to their rereleased albums; their original albums already being successful. thats why i disagreed; you never mentioned that their first album bombed - "rereleasing albums with radio friendly songs" doesnt only cover the shakira flop, it also covers the justin/mariah hits
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Post by So What on Mar 2, 2008 19:46:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I pretty much agree with what has been stated as well.
Another example is someone like Jewel. Now she never said she wouldn't go all sexified and slutty, but it was totally out of her character and everyone knew it. She even went back to her old image after that one failed. So I kind of consider that incident "selling out" cause she not only tried to make a more commercial sound, but she COMPLETELY chagned her image.
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Post by Carriefan0209 on Mar 2, 2008 20:02:40 GMT -5
Aw but I loved her song...what was it...intuition? loved it
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Post by Late Winter on Mar 2, 2008 20:11:36 GMT -5
Yeah, Jewel is another one
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Post by So What on Mar 2, 2008 20:17:07 GMT -5
But atleast she went back to who she is.
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Post by jennifa on Mar 3, 2008 1:14:51 GMT -5
Madonna and Nelly Furtado are the most recent examples.
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Post by So What on Mar 3, 2008 3:14:16 GMT -5
Nelly did not sell out sweety.
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Post by Scott on Mar 3, 2008 13:36:04 GMT -5
Okay, this is a my opinion: Madonna sold out, but Nelly didn't.
Nelly was the first person to work with Timbaland in years, at the time very few people knew him, and he was just remembered as that producer who worked with Aaliyah. She took a chance with the album, and that along with FutureSex/ LoveSounds became the template for the huge Timbaland domination for the following two years. She took a risk, and it payed off. Nelly has also had various RnB influences in earlier work, and has been know to simply want to change styles from each album to the next - shes an artist. I mean she wants to go down the rock route for her next album, and be part of a rock band - she is anything but a sellout, and the whole Loose style works really on her, shes just grown up.
Madonna, however did sellout. Now people don't get mad at me, anyone who knows me here knows I am a big Madonna fan. She only worked with two producers for this album: Timbaland/Danja and Pharell. Most pop singers these days go to Timbaland for a hit, and he has dominated aiwaves for 2 years now. She went for him clearly to get success in America. And the fact she has a friggin' duet with Justin Timberlake, the biggest male performer of the last 2 years on a first single is clearly to gain some huge success. But what exactly did Madonna sell out on - she is the Queen of Pop, she has nearly reinvented the whole genre for females for the past 3 decades, but she is reknowned for being a trendsetter, despite if it leads to commercial success. But then again adapting to changing musical tastes when she must - is what Madonna is all about. So I think you can look at it either way, its not so much the RnB root that worries me, but the fact that shes using Timbaland. But I guess if she is "selling out" on the first single she has every reason too. Shes 50 this year, and we all know how US Radio treats older women. Shes had 2 unsuccesful albums there in a row now (COADF was by no means a comeback there) and she can't fail a third time, or else she could well and truly be over there (look at Janet.) It is now or never she breaks the American Market one final time. There is always a first time with Madonna, and if "selling out" is her way of finally getting success there, then good for her. But I also think unlike other singers shes put her own stanp on the Timbo songs, whatever she does she puts her own mark on it, and all the music was created together, rather than using recycled beats. And shes certainly not gone against her principals like Avril Lavigne, adapting to the music industry at every turn is what shes all about, along with taking artistic risks. And shes only able to do that when she is at her peaks - Erotica came at the peak of her career, and American Life came after the huge Ray Of Light/Music comeback. But nows not the time to take a risk, she needs success more than ever, and "selling out" has to be the way to go.
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Post by Late Winter on Mar 3, 2008 13:44:24 GMT -5
I agree with Nevermind on Madonna. Like I said before, there's nothing wrong with it. It's about survival.
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Post by luisro on Mar 3, 2008 15:34:24 GMT -5
I would agree if Madonna had bombed on her last album. But bottom line is that for an album that is 100% DANCE music and the fact that she only did one performance to promote the album makes it a HUGE hit in more ways than one. She's trying to stay relevant and someone as old as Madonna that is not selling out at all.
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Post by Carriefan0209 on Mar 3, 2008 16:08:32 GMT -5
OMG Nevermind that was like..the best post of the month!
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So What
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Post by So What on Mar 3, 2008 16:27:19 GMT -5
^Seriously! I totally agree with everything you said Scott.
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Post by Late Winter on Mar 3, 2008 16:36:52 GMT -5
Even the main statement?
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So What
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Post by So What on Mar 3, 2008 16:41:58 GMT -5
Yeah, cause what he is saying makes sense, I guess. You never really explained yourself.
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Post by Late Winter on Mar 3, 2008 16:44:27 GMT -5
I didn't have the chance to, y'all just got all defensive LOL
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